Josef Fiusz is a Protestant pastor in the Paulus church Zurich. Before I met him, I heard by chance an old man citing the physicist Werner Heisenberg: “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.“

Where do you encounter complexity in your occupational field?

Structures or surfaces are not complex to me, but humans, thoughts and life are. Indeed, they are too complex for us to recognize and handle them alone. Disappointment, death and disease are part of the complexity we encounter; we cannot cope with them and are overstrained. We might be able to investigate in every aspect of our milky way, and still we will have to realize that there are millions of other milky ways in our universe. The complexity is infinite and there are no simple answers to it. Thinking in black and white might be simple, but also dangerous.

How should we deal with that complexity?

By including God in our life we do not have to overcome complexity: we can trust in somebody that stand above the complexity. God is able to provide answers; we do not have to struggle anymore. With the help of God we can accept the complexity and are not overpowered by the complexity of life.

So could you phrase a formula on that we can fall back when we encounter complexity?

We have to include God in our daily life. Again and again, by praying, by going to the church, by investing in our relationship to God. Thus we get a perspective that is detached from the complexity. It allows us to conserve, cultivate and advance the complex life we received from God. To call this a “formula” would be wrong. It is rather the core belief that is so important.

How did the complexity appear? Did it emerge or was it there from the beginning?

“And God said, Let there be light and there was light”. If – of course the thought is absurd – there has been a person at that precise moment analyzing the nature of that first light, the person would have found that it was the same light as it is today. In my opinion, complexity did not emerge from a primordial simplicity; God is the creator of all complexity. So far I mentioned complexity primarily in a negative or complicated context. However, complexity is more than that; complexity is beautiful, interesting and multifaceted. God gave substance to all life out of love. But life is not and cannot be simple. Thus it has all these various aspects of complexity.

How is God dealing with the complexity we struggle with?

God is above the complexity; still he knows how it is to struggle with it, since He directly encountered complexity through Jesus. The incarnation allowed God to experience the struggle of mankind with complexity. Thereby God failed as we fail and Jesus had to die as we die. However, Jesus resurrects. This shows us how God loves life and its complexity; He conserves both.

Is God actively interfering with our life? Is he shaping the nature of complexity or is he only above and outside of it?

I do not think that God is directly interfering with our daily life by actively modifying events. However, there have been situations in the past that motivated God to actively interfere. When God saw that the struggle of men with complexity turned men faithless, he was disappointed by his creation. He decided to flood earth and to only let survive the man that stayed truly godly within his struggle with complexity. Thus God told Noah to build the Arch and to load it with animals and his family. However, the Flood did not lead to a better world. Again, men became profane within their struggle with complexity. God finally accepted that fact. He is convinced of His creation and wants it to outlive since He loves it. The incarnation, as we discussed earlier, was an additional active interaction with human life and a dispute with complexity. When we pray and praise the Lord, we ask God for His presence in our life. Hence God gets involved in our life.

It seems that complexity lies not only in God’s creation, life, but also in the relationship of mankind and God. What do you think?

I agree with that. Believing involves the highly complex attempt of changing the point of view. “What is He seeing? What is He thinking?” We try to leave our daily complexity and to examine it from outside. That process, of course, brings a new complexity. However, it is the only possibility to find a meaning in life. We can only understand our daily complexity by following Gods will. The rainbow that appeared after the Flood was a sign of God’s love for us. He will protect us.

Is it possible to simplify the complexity we encounter?

No. We cannot simplify it. If we cannot stop struggling with complexity, if we infinitely try to outplay it, we will end up desperate. To believe is the simplest solution; it helps us to accept complexity. With God we can live a fulfilled life even though we encounter complexity. Without connection to God we are helplessly exposed to complexity. The Palm 42.5 represents this situation conclusively:

Why, my soul, are you downcast?

Why so disturbed within me?

Put your hope in God,

for I will yet praise him,

my Savior and my God.

The life of men seems to mainly consist of the mentioned struggle with complexity. Is there a meaning, a goal, in all this?

Many people lose their struggle with complexity. They are maybe forty, fifty, have achieved most of their goals – a partner, children, career, etc. – and suddenly they have to ask themselves how to continue. What is the struggle with complexity for if there is no goal to fight for? People wish to escape the daily complexity and look for ways to do so. Drugs, alcohol, but also art or music are used to forget about complexity, however, religion is the only possibility to overcome the daily struggle. Complexity can lead to a destructive, death bringing behavior. Solutions within the complexity will never be able to help us. With Religion we are able to accept complexity, to live with it and to see the beauty that is related to it. The meaning of life might be to fulfill the basic but universal wish of a life detached from complexity. The wish is an expression for the human desire of a relationship to God. Religion and believe help us to find a way away from complexity and towards God. Thus we can live a life in trust instead of confusion and desperate. God helps us; He is our shepherd.

When I think of human history many examples of destruction related to religion come into my mind. Many wars are made in the name of God.

Wrong conclusions and developments also happen among people close to religion. However, I think the way we live here today is an expression of the success of our religion. Our country, our continent, is shaped by Christianity. Democracy, legal practice, welfare, art and liberty are all part of our Christian culture. In Switzerland reformers such as Huldrych Zwingli founded universities. Martin Luther translated the Bible into German and promoted its distribution among the people. The thoughts of the Bible were made understandable and traceable; a new approach to religious faith was made possible. Christianity evolves, so as not to repeat mistakes made in the past.

But if Christianity is under constant evolution, what about it will stay the same?

The core characters traits of Christianity stay the same; Jesus’ story stays the same. The Christian God is a merciful God. Christianity is shaped by the attempt to follow what He that watches over us is thinking. We, limited as we are, cannot understand the infinity. We can only come up with limited answers to it. The mercy of God is of infinite possibility: “My thoughts are not your thoughts”. We struggle with complexity, but we are alive!